26
Feb
09

507 – The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham

507-locke-ben-011

Review:

That’s more like it.  It’s much better to raise my expectations before I watch Lost, then my mind isn’t blown on a weekly basis.

Locke took the tour of the off-island world in this episode.  It turns out that from his perspective… things suck.  No one listened to what he said, and most of them seemed to have quite awful things to say back.  Locke did talk to two possibly empathetic people Charles Widmore and Ben Linus.  Of course they could both be evil and in the end Ben did kill Locke, but that’s beside the point.  The point is that Widmore and Ben had more important things to say than any of the Oceanic 6.

On the island, in ‘modern time’ Locke, Ilana, Caesar and Ben landed the plane on Alcatraz (it turns out that airstrip did have a use).  Caesar is collecting guns and info from Dharma and Ilana is being suspicious.  Ben is injured and healing, and most importantly Locke is “alive”.  Ms. Widmore’s plan worked and Locke was successfully resurrected.

This episode was satisfying.  At the last finale we were told all about Jeremy Bentham, almost all the Oceanic 6 characters had something to say about him, mostly bad things.  The mystery surrounding Locke off the island was intense.  We finally found out what happened.  I can’t say that it was thrilling, not a 10.  It was definitely satisfying and very necessary but it wasn’t exciting.  It might just be that I like new mysteries more than old ones.

8.0/10.0

Character Impressions:

507-locke-02Locke

-Great Christian reference with Locke showing up in the water wearing a suit.  Too bad we didn’t get to see that scene, it would have been a great picture.

-Best Locke joke: My friend expected him to be a Sith Lord when he first appeared.

-Widmore, “Your parents had a sense of humor when they named you, why can’t I?”  That’s awesome.  But is it true?  Did Locke’s mom even know about the philosopher when she named him?  I doubt it.  It’s possible that Locke’s dad named him, that would make more sense.  Great line from Widmore though, it’s nice that the names were addressed onscreen.

507-mr-widmore-abaddon-locke-01-When Widmore was about to tell Locke why he was “so special” I leaned in expectantly.  “Because you are,”  FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!  Why can’t there be a reason?  Use your words Widmore.  (See below)

-Locke was pretty bad at convincing people, but they were unnecessarily mean to him.  Yeah he’s desperate and sad, but you could at least pity him enough to let him down softly.

-According to Walt’s visions, people surrounding Locke on the island want to hurt him, but only when he’s wearing a suit.  Apparently Ilana and Caesar aren’t as friendly as they seem, I’ll still give them the benefit of the doubt.

507-locke-01

-I really wish that Locke had tried to kill himself for my reason.  I thought that Locke might have killed himself as motivation for Jack and the others to go back.  But it turns out he tried to kill himself because Jack convinced him that he wasn’t special.

-The shadow of Locke hanging in the hotel room was quite disturbing.

-I hope that after this episode Locke has definitively made up his mind to stop trusting Ben.  Ben proved to Locke that he did what he accused Widmore of doing.  Ben used Locke to get back to The Island.

507-life-hydrogen-bomb-caesar-01

Caesar

-Caesar looked like he was expecting to find something. Was it just the gun?

-He did find an old issue of LIFE magazine, on the cover there is a large explosion and the words “The Awesome Fireball”, and at the top, “Color Pictures of Hydrogen Test”.  It looks like Dharma was doing research on Hydrogen bombs.  If Jughead was buried by The Swan then that means that Dharma knew that and was actually using them to save the island (not the world).  What surprises me about this is that Dharma knew.  I could see them setting up the station to diffuse a naturally occurring island phenomenon, but I find it weird to think that they knew it was a bomb and decided to incorporate it into a psychological experiment.

507-caesar-01-Apparently Caesar is the new Jack, he’s the guy with the passenger list and Locke has to talk to him to get the passenger list.

Ilana

-Ilana catches flashlights like a cool person.

-Does Ilana know Caesar?  If she does then she doesn’t trust him much.  It kinda seems like they just met hence the mystery between them.

507-ilana-01

-The boats were already on the island.  From The Others, I presume.

-It’s funny seeing Ilana’s reaction to Locke, she thinks that he was already on the island, an Other.  But she doesn’t freak out or even act aggressive.  I guess that goes with the fact that they know it’s not a deserted island.

Frank

-Frank went away with a girl in a boat, interesting.

507-mr-widmore-01Mr. Widmore

-Couldn’t Widmore afford someone more gentle than the local militia to go get Locke?

-(Even Widmore says his name with an ‘H’.  It really should be Whidmore.)

-Widmore was only seventeen, in “Jughead”.  That was the most surprising thing Widmore said.

-I was right!  I knew that Ben tricked Charles into leaving the island (that’s 1 for 4,509,827,894).

507-mr-widmore-locke-01-Widmore protected the island, peacefully, for 30 years.  That must have been before Ben joined and before The Purge.  Ben did cause a lot of trouble.

-Damnit, Widmore is so good at making me think twice about whether he’s evil or not.

-Widmore chose the number 23 as his contact number.  This is really going out on a limb, but could that choice be a direct reference to The Numbers.  And therefore, could Widmore be the source of The Numbers, or maybe just another victim?

Richard

-Widmore didn’t seem to respectful towards Richard.  when he heard that Widmore told Locke that he had to die, he brushed it off and told Locke that he would prevent that.  Not too clever.

507-christian-locke-01Christian

-I’m convinced that Christian is bad, and twice in this episode other people hint at it.  Widmore seems exasperated and asks Locke, “Why would you do that John?” (leave the island).  Charles assumed that Ben tricked Locke into leaving.  He assumes that someone must have tricked him into leaving.  And Sayid, “So who is manipulating you, Locke?”  It wasn’t Ben this time.  Christian was the one who wanted him to leave.

507-abaddon-01Abaddon

-The writers were just teasing us with Matthew Abaddon.  They knew that we were desperate to see him again, and we wanted to see what he wanted with Locke, and yet Locke inexplicable refused to talk to him.  That was mean, but it really kept the pace going.

-Abaddon’s job description makes perfect sense.  He really does get people to where they need to be, Locke, Hurley, Naomi.  Sure it’s a pretty vague job description, but he’s a pretty vague guy.

507-locke-abaddon-01-What I don’t understand is how and why Widmore found Locke and sent Abaddon there.  Was it because Locke is “special”?  (See below)

-Abaddon died for a few reasons.  His mystery was unnecessary.  The writers didn’t need that kind of intriguing character running around off the island.  By killing him they solved his mystery (kinda).  Also the actor has a full time job on Fringe so they couldn’t keep bringing him back to do guest spots.

Sayid

-“Build Our World”, tsk.  Get off your high horse Sayid. Stop literally saving the world.

Walt

507-walt-02-Abaddon mentions that Walt had “gotten big”.  Uh.. when did they meet?  That was surprising.  Perhaps he just spied on Walt when Widmore found out about Michael.

-Walt’s been having dreams eh?  So it wasn’t just the island that made him special.  He can actually see the future.  This could potentially go along with my Walt’s Powers theory.  I believe that Walt can manipulate the past to shape the present and the future, not unlike Desmond’s specialness.

507-walt-01

-Do Walt’s visions explain how Locke saw him in season 3?  They could.  I wished they had talked about that.

-How merciful of Locke to not tell Walt the truth about his father.  I would have told him, especially after the “I haven’t talked to him in three years” bit.

-Walt should have gone back.  That boy hasn’t been through enough.  That was my least favorite part of this episode.

507-hurley-locke-01Hurley

-Hey I called it, Hurley thought that Locke was dead.

-I still don’t understand why Hurley wouldn’t want to go back to the island, just because of Abaddon?

-The scene with Hurley was by far my favorite, so funny.

Kate

507-kate-01-Kate was the meanest of the Oceanic 6.  She just grinds him into the mud, saying that Locke never loved anyone.  Then Locke bares his soul for her.  She appears to pay attention to Locke’s story about Helen, then right at the end she turns it all around on him. He admits that he was angry and obsessed, “look how far you’ve come”.  There’s no need to kick the poor guy when he’s down.  And shouldn’t these people be nicer to a guy in a wheelchair?

-It shocks me how uncaring Kate is towards Sawyer.  He all but sacrificed himself so that she could leave and she still doesn’t care about him.

-And here’s the usual question: why doesn’t she want to go back?  What’s so great about her life in LA?  She belongs on the Island, they all do (except for Juliet).

507-locke-jack-01Jack

-I wonder if Locke was a little bit proud of Jack when he found out that they lied.

-Jack comes in at a close second in the unnecessarily mean department.  But it was less harsh because it was their usual conversation, faith vs science, fate vs probability.  And then Jack goes off saying: “Have you ever stopped to think that these delusions that you’re special aren’t real?  That maybe there’s nothing important about you at all.  Maybe you are just a lonely old man that crashed on an island.  That’s it.”  But Jack got payback, once he found out that Locke killed himself he knew that it was his fault.

-“We were never important.”  That seems very significant.  Jack saying that in a science vs faith tirade makes me think that they were all important.  This seems like a foregone conclusion but it’s nice to know that they were all important, as a group.  It’s not just Locke, or Walt or Desmond who are important it’s all of them.

507-ben-01Ben

-So Ben just hangs around outside private schools, hmmm.

-It makes me so sad to watch Locke get screwed over by Ben and Charles in the same episode (maybe not Charles).

-Ben doesn’t seem to think that Locke will be resurrected.  I guess it was Ms. Hawking who gave Jack all of the instructions to get Locke to become Christian’s Proxy.

507-locke-ben-02-Ben’s motivation was the big deal.  Why did he not let Locke kill himself, and why did he eventually kill him?  It was all to find out Locke’s way back to the island.  So he didn’t know Ms Hawking.  This really makes me reconsider Ms. Hawking alignment on the good and evil chart.  (See below)

Sun

-I was thinking during the episode that perhaps they did film Locke meeting with Sun but it was so boring that they cut it.  Hahaha.

507-caesar-bear-skull-01Charlotte

-When Caesar is exploring the Dharma room we see a glimpse of a bear skull.  This could be a reference to Charlotte.  Perhaps Charlotte recognized the skull in the desert because her family had one on the island.  Perhaps this is one of her parents offices.  That would mean that her parents did research at the Hydra station and either they did zoological research or they took part in brainwashing.  But I believe that the brainwashing room, Room 23, was added later for the use of The others.

507-helen-gravestone-011Helen

-I didn’t see that coming.

-I hoped to see Helen, or at least get a mention of her, but it was pretty weak hope.  I fully expected Locke to just forget about her.

-Is there a chance that it was faked?  That was a very generic gravestone, could it be that Widmore or Abaddon faked that?  They have a good motive, by proving to Locke that he has nothing to love off the island they gave him more of a reason to go back.  Maybe even Ben orchestrated all of that, you never know.

Flashes (what we know now):

507-mr-widmore-locke-02The War That’s Coming

All that we know about this war is that Locke needs to be there in order for the right side to win, according to Charles Widmore.  War sounds like a very final thing.  Could it be that The War is the theme of the final season?  It would certainly be epic if the season built up to a huge battle where all of the characters picked sides and fought.  For more on picking sides see Good & Evil, below.

Jacob/Christian

It drove me crazy that Locke didn’t mention Jacob or Christian to anyone but Jack.  He’s talking to people like Widmore, Ben, and Abaddon and he doesn’t even think to say anything, But he goes ahead and talks to Jack about his dad.  I’m pretty sure that both Ben and Widmore would have a lot to say about Jacob and even more to say about Christian taking over his role.

Locke Being Special

Why does Widmore think that Locke is “Special”?  He doesn’t say why in this episode.  I thought that Richard saw something in him as a baby, that’s why.  But it turns out that that was nothing more that circular logic.  Locke told Richard to go there because he was special so Richard did, the Special part of the equation cancels out.  Now I’m afraid that Widmore thinks he’s special because Locke met him when he was 17.  And we know that that indicated nothing.  As usual Locke “special”-ness is unprovable.

507-plane-flight-316-ilana-caesar-01People Disappearing

-Caesar tells Locke that Hurley and others disappeared in the plane during the turbulence.  That very interesting.  I would be fine with that being all the explanation we get about how they got to the island.  But while I’m writing I might as well speculate.  It could be that the Oceanic 6 (5) were caught in a time skip and were sent back in time in the same way as Jin, Sawyer, and all the others were.

Good & Evil

Here’s the thing.  Widmore says there’s a war, and obviously our characters are in the middle.  People are going to have to choose sides.  The sides could be split along good and evil, maybe not, we’ll see.  It would be very nice to know who’s on what side.  I could go on forever dividing them but I shouldn’t do it here.  So I’ll do it later, stay tuned, I might even be able to turn it into a weekly thing.

Next Week on Lost

If you don’t watch the Next Time on Lost teaser then you don’t want to read this.

SPOILER.

As usual I’m way out on a limb here, but that’s where I like to be.  In the teaser we see Sawyer pulling a sack off of a woman’s head.  Then he asks, “Is three years enough to forget somebody?”  The obvious subject of that question is Kate, and it likely is directed towards her.  But who’s that woman with the sack on her head.   Could it be the surprisingly absent Cassidy!  I’m hoping for this incredible longshot.

– Izi

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25 Responses to “507 – The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham”


  1. 1 Aaron
    February 26, 2009 at 9:57 am

    Nice write up man. I always enjoy your thoughts.

  2. 2 GT
    February 26, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    Good write up, but there are a couple of things you missed. This is what annoyed me.
    http://www.42inchtelevision.com/2009/02/panopticon.html

  3. February 26, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    You’re right GT, there was a lot missing in this episode. Here’s what I think happened. The writers probably wrote all of Locke’s encounters with these people as seperate flashbacks. It would have filled almost three episodes. Instead they tried to compress all of it in one episode. They clearly cut out a lot of stuff and truncated most of the scenes. When you think back it becomes obvious, Locke only had a few minutes with each of the characters and even then a lot of stuff happened off-screen. This kind of thing doesn’t really bother me much, it sucks that it didn’t happen exactly like we expected but the effect is the same.
    And I really don’t envy that Gregg Nations guy, that would be an awful job.
    – izi

  4. 4 el bocha
    February 26, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    There were two things that I found pretty frustating.

    One: Killing Abaddon. WTF? He was one of the most mysterious characters around and the writers kill him just before we can have enough answers. The same thing happened to Libby. It’s so annoying!!! For example: We don’t even know how the hell did Abaddon knew that the walkabout would send Locke to the island. Ok, now that I think of it, maybe it was just Widmore who knew that, but I have a sour taste in my mouth with this death. It seemed that Abaddon was related to the island somehow (not to Widmore), and that he had a much greater purpose in the overall mythology. But now knowing that he just works for Widmore and ends up dead all in a matter of less than an episode is very unsatisfying.

    Two: This isn’t so much frustating but confusing. I don’t understand why Ben went through all that trouble persuading Locke not to kill himself, only to kill him with his bear hands a few seconds later. If his primary goal was to see John dead, why would he prevent his suicide attempt?????
    After watching the episode again, I think it has something to do with Ms. Hawking, because Ben kills him right after Locke mentions her. Maybe Hawkings knows something that Ben doesn’t want Locke to learn…EVER. Still, it makes no sense. My head hurts

  5. February 26, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    @El Bocha
    “Killing Abaddon. WTF”
    I don’t think that I’m as sad about that as everyone else. His mysterious facade kinda disappeared once I saw him wearing something other than that suit (I guess the orderly costume didn’t disuade me). I think that this episode managed to shift all of the mystery of Abaddon over to Widmore. So I’m gald we got to see his story with Locke come full circle and that’s that, for me.
    Also, now that everyone is back on the Island (except Des, Penny and Widmore and a few children) it’s nice that the two off-island mysterious people, Abbadon and Ms. Hawking, were demystified.
    “I don’t understand why Ben went through all that trouble persuading Locke not to kill himself, only to kill him with his bear hands a few seconds later.”
    At first I felt the same way. But if you look at it through Ben’s eyes it makes more sense. After he got off the island he had two goals, kill people surrounding Widmore and get back to the island. He seemed to have partially failed at the first goal so all he had left was to get back to his home. He’s been off the island for three years and so far he has no clue about how to find it again. He didn’t know Ms. Hawking, I’m sure of that. Suddenly he hears that Locke is back and he’s trying to get people to come back to the island with him. So he follows him trying to figure out his way back. Locke is obviously failing in his mision, Ben can’t come near him because Widmore’s man, Abaddon, is always with him. He kills Abaddon and continues to follow Locke. He figures out that Locke is about to kill himself, that would mean that Locke’s way back would die with him. So Ben stops Locke and is surprised when Locke gives him the info very easily.
    You can figure out the rest, but essentially he hitches a ride with Locke’s body back to the island. I hope that works for you.
    – izi

  6. 6 Anon
    February 27, 2009 at 4:17 am

    I don’t think Kate doesn’t care about Sawyer, she wouldn’t be fulfilling his promise otherwise. She just doesn’t want to be a bad mom and take Aaron back.

    I also think Ben knew Locke couldn’t commit suicide, think about it, the island stopped both Michael and Jack from offing themselves because they had work to do. So does Locke. Ben bashing the door in just in time is the ISLAND stopping Locke. However, it seems Locke DOES have to die and Ben knows that, which is why he had all the cleaning stuff ready. Ben will easily gain Locke’s trust again the minute he says “I did it for you and for the island”.

    TPTB wouldn’t put a line like “I’ll really miss you” into a villains dialog if we weren’t supposed to be wondering if he’s good or evil. I also don’t think they’d spend an entire season (season 4) humanizing him, only to have him suddenly turn evil again. To me, Ben killed Locke for the greater good. Yes, it’s incredibly extreme but hey, it’s season 5. It’s crunch time!

    SKate reunion next week! ❤

  7. 7 Bones
    February 27, 2009 at 11:05 am

    So, been talking it over with a co worker and been wondering about some things. Why did Ben turn the wheel if he didn’t know how to get back? Also, did he know he had to take Locke bad as a body before killing him?

    It’s obvious Ben has been going against Jacob and the Island’s wishes for some time. Jacob saying to Locke “help me”, the barrier around the cabin presumably to keep Jacob in, turning the wheel instead of Locke, going against Widmore who seems to want the best for the Island, and trying to kill Locke the first time. It seems like he tried to kill him because he was getting in the way of Ben and about to take over as leader. Seems like why he killed him for good the second time. So if he did want Locke out of the way, why wouldn’t he let Locke turn the wheel and leave the island? Why would Ben want to leave? What did he gain from that? AND, if Locke was originally supposed to turn the wheel, why would Jacob want him off the Island?

    So this goes back to killing Locke this time. Why would he want to kill him? For the same reasons he tried to the first time? He doesn’t know about Hawking, so he doesn’t know the plane needs a dead body to get back. And it seems after killing Locke he doesn’t know he has to bring him back. He needed Hawking’s name to know how to get back, and kills Locke after hearing it. Things don’t add up.

  8. 8 Bus Said
    February 27, 2009 at 11:36 am

    Wow great ideas. Here are some of mine.

    I think the airplane Foom– Foomed — whatever, took Jack Hurly & Kate (and Sayid) from the plane to the 70’s where Jin and Sawyer & others are as that is where they were always supposed to be—- with that group so the Island/Time has now been fixed/ corrected. But now Stuck there in the 70s.

    Whitmore’s temperament in 1954 showed him to be someone who does not cooperate well with others. My guess is that he gained some allies as they found Island secrets, separated from Richard’s group (soon to be miss-called Hostiles), discovered a way/ left the island (with Mrs. Hawking–Eloise). Took some of its “magic,” became rich in the real world, created Dharma to find/exploit other Island secrets, especially the one of eternal life. Richard, leader of the Hostiles, is guided by the only real “good guy,” Jacob, is always searching for the ONE who will save the island. He thinks it’s Ben for many years. Maybe after they conducted the Purge, Ben found the way to make it so no one could find the island for 20 years, thus he gains the leadership, kept it through manipulation and now of course wanting that power back doing anything he can to get it.

    Now recently possible to find the island with the Hatch blown. That’s why Ben went there alone in season 2 as he knew it was important for the numbers to be punched in—maybe he’s the only one who new/ cared about that station, maybe he was there when it was turned on 20 years ago to hide the island— he wanted those in there to have guns, stay in there on fear of contamination, he recruited/ trapped new people for it—- so keeping the real “good guys” out of it.

    Jin & Co. had stopped jumping in time when Locke fixed the FDW and have been there those three years at first with the Hostiles (as now they would be recognized special since Richard saw them disappear in 1954), gradually infiltrating Dharma & maybe THEY are the forerunners of the Purge. They learn what Dharma is really doing (exploiting the island’s resources and doing scientific “experiments” with the talented and gifted Hostiles, killing/ torturing/ brainwashing people (Smokey)). Plus, of course Daniel is trying to figure a way back home through time. Definitely Whitmore/Dharma had a big reason to do experiments—to find the key to eternal life—do ANYTHING to get it. Easy to get great scientists there doing all kinds of cool stuff.

    So, I’m thinking now that since we know some who are “called/ brought to the island” are/ become special (815ers, maybe some new 316ers, AND Black Rock(ers)—- which includes Richard, and others from the past, ancient Greeks with 4 toes, etc, where some were given the gift of eternal life.) Ben’s gift was seeing a few ghosts, not eternal life, not a true hero. Ben lost his true love, but then became obsessed with power, trying to “make” a series of women love him & obsessed with having his offspring take over for him someday, of course taking one from Miss Frenchie when he had the chance.

    It seems the 316 plane crashed in the PRESENT on the Hydra station (2nd Island) as it was only a few years back that a “runway” was being built there. Locke and Ben are in the present on the island. I’m sure will try to kill Locke soon, maybe trap him somewhere in Time/ bouncing in time in ghost form? Thus making Locke the eternal Jacob in the 1st place. The plane’s captain knows where they are and after finding a canoe went to see if he can find those left behind.

    So, next season, it must be Locke to be the leader of the Others—maybe the leader from way in the past as Jacob??. We will get their history which will include The Ancients, and the Black Rock. So, I think Locke is Jacob, somehow got trapped somewhere in time for hundreds/ thousands of years. . . poor Locke might suffer much, much longer.

    So something has to happen for the ones stuck in the 70s to return—– Or, what if they stayed there all that time and Lock will find them 40 years older and still with the Others after all. Knowing what “list” is needed—knowing who MUST be / stay on the island? Sounds too silly.

    So that’s my current take

  9. February 27, 2009 at 11:55 am

    Whew, look at all the comments.
    @Anon
    Yay Skate!
    Interesting outlook on the suicide thing. I missed that. And that would be awesome if Ben can regain Locke’s trust quickly, poor Locke.
    @Bones
    I believe that Ben thought that Jacob had spurned him, turned against him in favor of Locke. So he was bitter that he was no longer the chosen one. When he heard that they had to move the island he figured that this was Jacob’s way of telling Ben to get out. Ben knew that the island had to move quickly because Widmore found the island. I’m not saying that was right, but he most definitely wanted to get the island away from him. What’s surprising is that Ben didn’t trick Locke into turning the wheel, as he did to Widmore. That’s what makes me think that Ben did it because he thought he was rejected by Jacob.
    Remember, Ben doesn’t know anything about Christian. Christian wanted Locke to turn the wheel, he wanted Locke to leave, he never said anything about Ben. And Christian isn’t Jacob, and I doubt he rally speaks for Jacob.
    @Bus Said
    Sorry I have to go back to work, I’ll come back to you later today.
    – izi

  10. February 27, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    @Bus Said
    I completely agree with your “fooming” idea. They definitely went to the 70s to meet up with the other time travelers.
    I don’t think Widmore left the island willingly, he seems quite angry about Ben taking over and tricking him into leaving.
    I never got the feeling that Ben cared much about The Swan or the people pressing the button, but it’s very possible. That would be interesting if he went there mostly to make sure they were pressing the button.
    The idea that Locke is Jacob is making more and more sense. It would certainly explain why Locke couldn’t see him when he went to the cabin, and it would explain Bens comment, “He feels the same way about technology as you do.”
    I really hope that the people stuck in the 70s aren’t truly stuck there, it would suck if they had to age them 40 years in order to bring them back into the story.
    All in all youhave some very good theories there. And the cohesiveness is great, my theories are all very seperate and lack the timeline that you’ve got there.
    – izi

  11. 11 lvgirl
    February 27, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    @Izi and Bus
    I don’t think that the 815er’s in the 70’s could be on the island in 2004 when they originally crash because why if they are a part of the “others” would they allow all the murdering and kidnapping that went on to themselves when they first crashed? Plus, Juliet…A woman in her seventies seeing herself on the island for the first time…

    I think the time skipping…alot of it had to do with being in the same time as their other self. What would have happened to John Locke if he would have gone to himself, like Sawyer asked? Does it create a paradox or am I being too Back to the Future thinking.

    If the plane has crashed into the present, which we assume it has, Ben did not flash and could that be because his young self is where the O6er’s flashed to? I know crazy questions.

    Also, I thought the episode was good. I guess I’m not as critical as everyone else or I have more “faith”. I think everyone gets a bit too critical and analytical over somethings that given the time they have to write these scripts…they all can’t be Shakespeare or Tolstoy.

  12. 12 missscarlett
    February 28, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    Apparently Caesar is the new Jack, he’s the guy with the passenger list and Locke has to talk to him to get the passenger list.
    No no – Frank TOOK the passenger list with him

    -Ilana catches flashlights like a cool person
    Hilarious! I really like how capable women on this Island are — well, incapable of having babies but…

    Widmore was only seventeen, in “Jughead”. That was the most surprising thing Widmore said.
    Ha ha! it actually was the only surprise, wasn’t it?

    could that choice be a direct reference to The Numbers. And therefore, could Widmore be the source of The Numbers
    Interesting….

    I think Widmore is just arrogant and self assured in his dismissal of what Richard had to say.

    I think Sayid’s question is also to keep us questioning things — Widmore is potentially manipulating Locke — come on, who ISN’T manipulating Locke??

    Stop literally saving the world.
    Well…with Jack on the booze someone’s gotta do it! And we can’t trust Locke to stick to one game plan at a time!

    Abaddon mentions that Walt had “gotten big”. Uh.. when did they meet?
    I was wondering that too and then I thought – Widmore probably just gave him a plain, vanilla dossier on all the 815’ers to study up on.

    yeah -I am wondering if there is more than one Variable (upcoming episode title) Walt, Desmond and Daniel could all potentially fit. Oh, sure maybe I am just being nice including Daniel.

    shouldn’t these people be nicer to a guy in a wheelchair?
    Honestly. They are excruciatingly mean to Locke.

    (except for Juliet).
    amen! but wouldn’t her life be so dull with just a regular book club to look forward to?

    It’s not just Locke, or Walt or Desmond who are important it’s all of them.
    Polllyyyannna? woncha come out and play?
    Now I’m being mean! Sorry. Couldn’t resist. But are the ones left alive MORE important than the ones the Island has killed?

    it was so boring that they cut it. Hahaha.
    HA HA!!!

    Unless Locke’s “specialness” will be linked to his resurrection? Otherwise — all that specialness has been generated by time travel and misconceptions. Oh and the campfire picture he drew when he was 4.

    caught in a time skip and were sent back in time in the same way as Jin, Sawyer, and all the others were.
    That is what I was thinking because of the Flashes we saw in the plane. But we don’t really know what time period the Ajira crash survivors are in, do we?

    But what does each side stand to gain?? WHY are there sides at all? What is at stake — besides the cryptic: safety of the Island?????

    I think they are making it look like Cassidy — did she get on the plane too? Is that why Frank has the manifest? and will it be interesting to read? did he take it to show to our Others? Is Walt on that plane?? Did Hurley get these extra people there? That would be wild!

  13. 13 missscarlett
    February 28, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    El bocha! I’m totally not being mean — but the image of Ben killing Locke with his “bear” hands is killing me!

    Also – I am sure Ben changed his mind because of what Locke revealed to him about Jin and then Eloise — why it mattered so much is the question!

  14. 14 missscarlett
    February 28, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    would be awesome if Ben can regain Locke’s trust quickly, poor Locke.

    WOULD be? It’s a foregone conclusion Izi.
    It’ll only take one sentence.

  15. 15 missscarlett
    February 28, 2009 at 4:05 pm

    I think Ben knew about Eloise before — I think he was surprised that Widmore knew where Eloise was and what she was capable of.

    But – only time will tell.

  16. 16 Rosie
    March 2, 2009 at 11:17 am

    Widmore protected the island, peacefully, for 30 years. That must have been before Ben joined and before The Purge. Ben did cause a lot of trouble.

    Ben caused the Purge? I thought that was Richard.

  17. 17 Rosie
    March 3, 2009 at 11:46 am

    He figures out that Locke is about to kill himself, that would mean that Locke’s way back would die with him. So Ben stops Locke and is surprised when Locke gives him the info very easily.

    This does not make any sense to me. Locke killing himself would block Ben’s attempts to return to the island, but Ben killing Locke would guarantee him a ride to the island?

    Why>

  18. 18 Rosie
    March 3, 2009 at 11:49 am

    In regard to the Purge of the Dharma Initiative . . . it was Richard who initiated the Purge. Ben and the rest of the Others assisted him.

  19. March 3, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    We’re ignoring you Rosie.

  20. 20 Bus Said
    March 3, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    Yes, Richard led the purge FOR A REASON. As I said, I think

    “Definitely Whitmore/Dharma had a big reason to do experiments—to find the key to eternal life—do ANYTHING to get it.” They were doing very bad things to Richard’s “Hostiles” thus their open revolt. Later found a way with Ben’s help to take over and hide the island.

  21. 21 Rosie
    March 4, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    Why did Ben first stop Locke from committing suicide and then later, kill Locke? And then . . . he made certain that Locke’s body would return to the island. Why?

  22. 22 Lostie
    March 4, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    @ROSIE
    Ben killed Locke cause Locke could not return if he committed suicide.
    and he brought Locke back cause that was the only way for Ben to get back.

    This is old news……every1 is talking bout Sawyer in LaFleur epi….just awesome !!


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