513 – Some Like it Hoth



I thought this episode was going to be a fun little jaunt around the island with Miles and Hurley.  At times it was pretty light, but it was also pretty serious at times.

We got confirmation that Pierre and Lara are Miles’ parents, and Miles knew that too.  This episode established some father issues for Miles (I believe that Daniel and Juliet are the only people without daddy issues on this show).

There was some slight focus on Miles’ powers but we are still left to guess at how he got the powers.  It was very interesting to hear Miles and Hurley compare their powers though.

In the “Main” storyline, the pressure on our group is growing.  Phil tried to confront Sawyer and had to be stopped, and now Roger is on the case too.

This episode showed a lot more about the Dharma Stations, we’ve been stuck at The Barracks, so it was good to have a tour to see what’s built and what isn’t.

And last but not least we saw Bram, the large scary man with Ilana.  He attempted to prevent Miles from going to the Island with Naomi.  The clues regarding this new group are very intriguing, I can’t wait to find out more.

The episode wasn’t a comic relief episode, but it also wasn’t crucial.  Ont he bright side we finally got a Miles flashback, and it answered almost all of our questions about him.  This episode certainly wasn’t bad and the Star Wars references really helped it’s score 7.0/10.0

(I’m back to my old format!  It wasn’t worth posting twice in a night, or maybe it was, I don’t know.  I’m just trying this way again.)



-We all saw Miles’ parentage coming.  After that Comic-Con video we al started guessing, but it’s nice to have it confirmed.

-Poor little Miles.  That would be rough super-power for a little kid, imagine going to funerals, or to hostpitals!  (There was an upside though, he could apparently buy things from a vending machine with a quarter.  What a world).

513-miles-02-Miles looked like he was playing his X-Men 3 character in the scene with his balding mother.

-It made me so happy when Miles asked where his fathers body was.  Sometimes I get too into the flashbacks and I start to imagine what it would be like to see this before we watched the rest of the show.

-Miles won’t make eye contact with Pierre, sad.  “That douche is my dad”.  The funny episodes have so many great lines.

513-miles-pierre-01-That’s terrible that Miles saw his mom and knew who his dad was this whole time.  I wonder if he told anyone else.  He seemed so content on the Island, I’m surprised it never got to him.

-Aww, Miles had a Dharma baby blanket.

-Let’s see if I can figure out Miles’ money plan.  It seems like every job he took he charged double.  I wonder if he always paid people their money back.  So far it seems that way.  That must be hard to keep up with.

513-miles-pierre-02-Is it possible that Miles’ powers were from him being too close to his past self?  I think I might make a theory about this.


-Lara says that Pierre never cared about them, and that he kicked them out and didn’t want anything to do with them.  And it’s true that he’s a bastard, but he also made sure they survived the Purge.  Surely that’s what he was trying to do.

-Did Pierre laugh at Hurley when Hurley said, “polar bear poop”?

513-pierre-01-Our attitude towards Pierre is always changing.  At this point I think we’re meant to think that he loved his family and sent them away to protect them.

-What are the odds that Miles was named after himself?  Uh-oh, I can feel my thought processors locking up.  ERROR ERROR.

-Pierre called the experiments on The Hydra ridiculous.  There’s no love-loss between the sciences is there.



-Why would Lara not let Miles run?  That’s a little overprotective.

-That would be very hard to deal with a kid who could talk to dead people.  Maybe that’s why her hair fell out.  (Ugh, I get shivers looking at that scalp.)

-Speaking of Lara’s lack of hair, I’m guessing that was from the radiation she was likely exposed to on the island.  It sounds a lot like Kate’s mom (I’m joking, the old Diane=Annie theory is thoroughly impossible).

513-lara-02-Miles’ mom is probably dead, right?  I don’t see any other reason why they would show her so sickly while Miles is a teenager.


-Good ol’ fashion Hurley is back!  Joking away and loving life.  I still don’t know why he wasn’t desperate to go back to the Island. I guess Sayid scared him off with his mysterious warning about Ben.

513-hurley-miles-01-And what’s with his state of mind?  Why is he so not-crazy on the island?

-I wish Hurley would shave, he looks not so good with hairy cheeks, they used to be side-burns, but they’ve mostly grown into furred chops now.

-Hey some slight validation regarding my “Hurley’s Powers” theory.  This episode could have debunked it too, depending on how you look at it.  It could prove the theory because it’s openly mentioned and compared to Miles’ very real power.  Then again it could be seen as ridiculous because it’s very different compared, and impossible compared to Miles’ real powers.

513-hurley-01-Best scene of the island: Hurley trying to make Pierre and Miles get closer.

-Hurley mentions the Incident, it’s going to be big.

-“Did he beat you up when you were little?”  It’s amazing that Hurley managed to make that line funny.

-Hurley’s comparison between Miles and Luke Skywalker is too good.  And the missing hand this was and interesting touch.  Surely Hurley knows that Pierre is missing a hand at some point in the future.


-Whoa, Juliet had a very hard time lying to Ben’s Dad, Roger (why do I always have to look up his name).  Did she forget all that Ben taught her?  She’s still able to be unreasonably calm at the drop of a hat, but still she’s spent a lot of time with the two best lyers on the show, Ben and Sawyer.

-Kate and Juliet are still chummy, that’s a relief.

-Juliet also had a nice cup of coffee with Jack.


-Sawyer’s been in the “Circle of Trust” for a while, I wonder how much he has seen.

-That footage that Phil has of Sawyer and Kate carrying Ben into the jungle isn’t that incriminating.  I’m pretty sure that it wouldn’t be hard to explain away.  I can’t actually think of any good excuses, surely Sawyer would.


513-kate-roger-01-I knew it was trouble when Kate went to talk to Roger.  They give Kate one great episode then it’s back to her making junior mistakes.

-I think Kate sees parallels between Ben and Ben’s dad and her and her dad.


-Jack acts like he knows his place under to Sawyer’s authority.  That’s unusual.


-“The circle of trust.”  That was just strange.


-I think Roger was screwing with Jack.  I think he had already made up his mind about Kate taking Ben or at least having something to do with it.  I believe he was testing Jack to see if perhaps he had something to do with it too.  He was testing the waters to see how close they were.  Maybe he’s not as dumb as he looks.

513-roger-jack-01-Who would have thought that Roger would be the person who would suspect Kate and Jack and Co.?


-Those Volskwagon vans sound like Smokey.  Coincidence… yes.


513-naomi-01-That was an unexpected appearance.  I always forget about Naomi, it’s because she doesn’t look like she belongs with the cast.  I talked about this back when I was watching the old episodes.  Her look is considerably different than everyone else.

-Is it possible that she used Miles to learn more about Widmore?  She seemed surprised when she heard all that info about Felix, but that could have just been her being impressed by Miles’ skills.


-Hey he’s got a name!  He is absolutely frightening.  It’s something about his eyes and the fact that he’s freakishly large.

-He’s definitely not working for Widmore, that was well established.

-“What lies in the shadow of the statue?”  That’s no code.  I guess it’s a serious question.  I still don’t know what the answer is though.


-“Long time no see.”  It’s great when they give characters lines that really don’t fit.  That’s such a strange thing for Daniel to say.

-Daniel looked genuinely happy to be back on the Island.  I intend to talk more about his return furing the two week break before the next episode.

Flashes (what we know now):

Widmore’s Crew Choices


Naomi says that they want to use the dead Dharma Folk’s memory to get to Ben.  That possible, that kinda goes against my theory that Miles was there to talk to or expel Jacob.
But I don’t think that’s the real reason why he was chosen.  This episode confirms that Miles was born on the Island.  I’m pretty sure that Daniel was born on the Island too, and we know that Charlotte was.  I think that Widmore needed people who had been to the Island before in order to get his crew there (maybe even Michael inadvertantly helped). This theory comes from what Eloise said about getting the Oceanic 6 back to the island, it seemed to help that more old island inhabitants went back.

513-dead-guy-01The Dead Guy

When I first saw this guy I assumed he was the dead guy from under the Orchid, from the opening scene of the season.  That was obviously wrong.
He got his filling shot through his head, that’s pleasant.  It sounds like the electro-magnetism of the Island is out of control.  If only there was some way to regulate or dissipate all that energy.

513-the-swan-hatch-01The Swan

There’s something strangely existential about watching Dharma build The Swan.  I don’t see any concreted up H-bomb.  Did I miss it?  It looks like they were almost done, they were already at the top of the Hatch.

Hurley said, out loud, that The Swan crashed the plane.  Sometimes you wonder if these things aren’t true anymore after they don’t mention it for a season or two.

The Numbers

A serial number?  A little disappointing, but it was a lot of fun watching that scene.  It’s got to be more than just a serial number, that was just a coincidence, or fate.  DUN DUN DUUUUN!

513-miles-sawyer-kate-security-cameral-01Security Cameras

You know what I loved about that scene with the security cameras?  They didn’t use regular footage for the security cameras.  I hate it when TV shows use angles and shots, that you were just watching, for security camera feeds.  This may seem like a small thing, but it drives me nuts, and it’s so lazy.

Star Wars

513-hurley-empire-strikes-back-011This is what I’ve been thinking since they mentioned it was 1977.  When I hear 1977 I immediately think of A New Hope.  I would be thrilled to go back in time if I got the chance to watch the movies in theatres during the original run.  Then again, I’m glad I am the age I am, I got to enjoy 6 Star Wars movies instead of just those three.
Anywho, that was one of the best stories ever.  Only Hurley could come up with that kind of idea.

Felix’s Papers


The dead guy Miles was interrogating was deliver photos and pictures of empty graves and a bill for an airplane to Widmore.  That’s confusing.  The vital piece of information that we’re missing is whether this was a test because Naomi knew what Felix was doing, or maybe it was a test and also a way of finding out what Felix was doing.  In the end all we know is that the papers were going to Widmore.  I’m going to venture a guess and say that probably someone was trying to tell Widmore about the graves and the plane, which means that Widmore wasn’t behind it.  So let’s start pointing fingers again.  I still don’t think it was Ben, so I’m voting for this new Third Party, and I’m also guess that this Third Party is led by Eloise Hawking.

The Third Party


These new people are frightening.  First of all there’s Ilana who looks like she might randomly shoot anyone who gets in her way.  Then there’s Bram, who is a behemoth and surprisingly talkative, that was very interesting how they brought him into the show.  I didn’t even expect him to talk when I first saw him.
Anyways the point is that these people are new and important and they aren’t loyal to Ben or Widmore.  That leaves Ms. Hawking as the main suspect.  It seems very likely that she’s behind them.  She’s the person who chose Flight 316 and she made sure that everyone was on the flight.

– Izi

12 Responses to “513 – Some Like it Hoth”

  1. April 16, 2009 at 5:35 am

    Yep, more and more I’m thinking Hawking is in charge of Ilana’s “Shadow of the Statue” crew. It was nice to see Miles and his backstory. I had a feeling he was going to be Pierre’s son, but was glad when the confirmation came. Most interesting to me though was the fact that he said on the 3rd day at Dharma, his mom got in the cafeteria line behind him. That would put their meeting/crossing paths 3 years ago. Meaning she could have known about Miles and his name before she even got pregnant with Miles. How’s that for bizarre.

    I also think it’s odd that Dharma is building the Swan outside of their “turf” (in the Others part of the island). Could this be a reason for locking it up like it’s hazardous outside? Who knows. Maybe Radzinsky just went nuts after the Purge. Maybe he somehow survived and stayed in there to stay safe.

    I can’t wait to find out what the Shadow of the Statue crew is going to do. You know they’re bad news and you know they’re armed. And it seems clear they fired on the time-traveling dugout with Sawyer and are the “threat” coming to the island that Walt had dreams about. But does it have anything to do with the actual statue on the island?

  2. 2 jenn
    April 16, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    It makes perfect sense that the ‘shadow of the statue’ group are run by Elouise – if only because Sayid wouldn’t have been on the plane with Ilana taking him on it, as if Elouise had instructed her to bring him. If Ben couldn’t get all of the O6, Elouise would do her part to get more (of course the others all came of their own or each others accord in the end, as far as we know.)

  3. 3 Publicola
    April 16, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    Another possibility for the identity of the Third Party is that these people are the reconstitution of DHARMA and that Pierre’s video message did, in fact, successfully reach Ann Arbor and that DHARMA, along with Widmore and Ben have also been searching for a way back to the Island. After all, if our Survivors’ actions in 1977 did inform DHARMA about the upcoming Incident and Purge, then it is possible that DHARMA then spent a considerable effort to change the future or at least take steps to react to the Purge after it occurs. As it has pointed out in other blogs, it is clear that somewhere in Ann Arbor, there is significant activity by DHARMA people and/or the Hanso Foundation associated with DHARMA’s on Island activities. Even if Ben gassed every living soul on the Island, people in Ann Arbor would realize that something was wrong. Even if they lost the location and all communication with the Island, there is little doubt that our scientific friends would be looking for the fruits of their significant investment. Indeed, so Ben makes it back to the Island, Widmore must now enlist the assistance of his spoil Desmond Hume, and a reconstituted DHARMA may in fact be sending people around asking, “what lies in the shadow of the statue?”

    What if DHARMA knows full well that Jughead lies in the shadow of the statue. Of course, since it was presumably Ms. Hawking that buried Jughead in the first instance, I suppose that she may very well represent the leader of the Third Party as well.

    Can’t wait to find out.

  4. April 17, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    I think you’re right on about Dharma locking up The Swan. All the Dharma stations outide their zone would have to be pretty secure. That also explains all the guns down there.
    Isn’t it funny how perplexed we were about Walt’s warning just a little while ago? It’s all so obvious now. You can really see the writers tightening up their theory/resolution process.
    very good thoughts there. If you don’t mind I might refer to you in an upcoming Foreign Theory post. I read a related theory on the internet and it goes hand in hand with yours.
    I kinda hope that it’s not Jughead in the “shadow of the statue”. I hope it’s something more mythical.
    – izi

  5. April 18, 2009 at 10:15 am

    Don’t speak too soon, Daniel and Juliet’s daddy issues might still be revealed.

    What are the odds that Miles was named after himself?
    I’d say pretty slim. Because at this point, the kid has already been named, and it’s clear that Miles and his dad sure weren’t close when the baby was born/named. I don’t think they would name their child after a mere acquaintence.
    But maybe you were kidding with this and I took it way too seriously :p

    Surely Hurley knows that Pierre is missing a hand at some point in the future.
    He is? Are you serious?

    You thought Juliet had a hard time with the lying? Strange, I actually thought she was really convincing. Roger sure didn’t suspect her of anything.

    I always forget about Naomi, it’s because she doesn’t look like she belongs with the cast. I talked about this back when I was watching the old episodes. Her look is considerably different than everyone else.
    Agreed. It’s hard to explain, but I always felt she didn’t really “belong”. I was actually quite relieved when she got killed off so soon.

    I don’t see any concreted up H-bomb. Did I miss it?
    I think it’s just buried very, very deeply in the ground.

  6. 6 Cunny
    April 19, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Sounded to me like Miles was named after Miles Davis.

    Anyone else think it was surprisingly dumb of Hurley to mention the body to Chang?

  7. 7 Publicola
    April 20, 2009 at 8:48 am

    Izi, feel free to mention me whenever you like. It seems to me there are only a finite number of possible identities for the Third Party: After SLIH convincingly crossed Widmore off the list, the strings are either being pulled by Ben Linus, Ellie Hawking, DHARMA or some other third party we have not met yet.

    I would be surprised to find out that Ben Linus controls this group. It is true that Ben has agents off-Island (the lawyer, the butcher, etc.), it seems to me that Bram et al would have simply killed Miles if they knew he was going to the Island to capture Ben Linus. Instead, they tempt / dare Miles into joining “their team” rather than conspire with Mr. Widmore.

    As for Ms. Hawking, while it seems clear that her influence is far-reaching and that she has more knowledge about both the Island and time-travel than the others, there is really no other evidence that she is leading her own team whatsoever. Indeed, as I mentioned earlier, she likely knows the location of Jughead as she was the one instructed to bury it. However, during the meeting at the Lighthouse, she seems all-too-complicit with Ben’s efforts to get back to the Island. She is not even surprised to see Desmond Hume and listen to the message Desmond delivers from her son. She helps Jack get back to the Island and instructs him to bring Locke’s corpse with him. And yet, Widmore has her current address and contact information, and did not seem hesitant to pass same onto Desmond. In sum, if Ellie Hawking is the leader of a faction of the “war” that Widmore predicts is about to come, she sure is not acting like it.

    Whether there is really a yet-unknown player to also participate in the “war” is really difficult to determine with the evidence we have been given so far. Indeed, could the Lost writers convincingly and successfully introduce a villain this late into the plot? Of course they could, so I am not ruling this possibility out. Thus, the question is begged: who else could possibly know about the Island that would have such a stake in getting back to it?

    Could it be the US Army to retrieve Jughead and seek vengeance for the murder of their soldiers? If so, I might stop watching the show. First, the US Army is not and should not be portrayed as villainous. Lost has been so careful to avoid politics throughout its tenure that I do not believe they would go down this path that might anger 50% of their audience. Second though, Jughead came to the Island in 1954. Since that time, the US has fought at least four or five significant wars and it would not be believable that it suddenly had an interest in finding Jughead – lost some sixty years ago.

    Could it be the descendants of Magnus Hanso or other survivors of the Black Rock? I do not think so because Lost has made clear the connection between the Hanso foundation and DHARMA. Hanso’s descendant financed both DHARMA and the studies leading to its creation. To the extent that Hanso himself ever makes an appearance on the Island, I have to believe it would be through his relationship to DHARMA and not independently.

    One theorist out there believes that the Third Party is what he calls the “Island Ancients” believing that there was an ancient culture (evidenced by the Four-toed Statue) and that the Others (or Hostiles) went to war with and displaced this ancient civilization. This would return both Linus and Widmore (as well as Richard Alpert) to the same side. It would make the 815 Survivors mere pawns to be used by either side in this war. This would also require significant amounts of development by the writers before the audience can feel like we have a stake in the resolution of this ancient concept. I will not discount this possibility, but I do not believe it.

    Instead, and for the reasons set forth in my earlier comment, I believe that Bram, Ilana and the other “shadow of the statue” people, are, in fact, DHARMA, fully reconstituted (as begged by Pierre Chang) and armed with a mission to destroy the Hostiles once and for all (including both Widmore and Ben Linus) and retake the Island for its own distopian and silly use.

  8. 8 Di
    April 21, 2009 at 6:07 am

    —-Is it possible that Miles’ powers were from him being too close to his past self? I think I might make a theory about this.—

    I totally thought that! the second Miles saw himself as a baby I was like – ‘this is the reason he has this power, he’s too close to himself in the past.’

    I think Hurley is stable on the island because he has a connection with it
    sort of like LOCKE’s Jesus-calm now
    Hurley saw the Cabin (Jacob’s Cabin) in Season 4 – before he leaves the island
    Christian and the eye in the window – opened the door for Hurley
    I think his non-craziness on the Island is a function of the island – in the same way it fixed Locke’s Back – Hurley now accepts that dead people visit him, and on the island, that’s not considered strange.

    and FARADAY!

    was Lapidis born on the island too?

    I was very very surpised when the guy who played Ceasar was shot (and I assume killed, as not many people can survive getting shot by Ben) – he’s a well known actor
    and then this Illna and Bram douche are important
    I really didn’t care about them untill she said “WHAT LIES IN THE SHADOW OF THE STATUE?” to Lapidis — that was EPIC

    (for the record, I think that the JUGHEAD is ‘what lies in the shadow of the statue.’
    but I could be wrong. )

  9. April 21, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    I’d be pretty disappointed if Ben was the leader of the Third Party. We all get that he’s powerful and all that, giving him more ammunition isn’t a fun thinng, it’s fun to watch him scramble. Besides, the guns won’t be very useful if Ben keeps his word to be nice-like to Locke, Locke won’t want to shoot anyone, and Ben won’t want to kill his favorite target, Locke.
    I think showing that Eloise is the leader would be a great reveal. When we first met Ms. Hawking she seemed slightly evil or at least ambiguous. When she came back this season she was almost 2 dimensional in her helpfulness. I think we are meant to wonder about her motives. Why would she go through any trouble to get the O6 back to the island at all? Was it really just because “destiny” dictates it? I doubt it, I think she was using the Oceanic 6 just as much as Ben was. I’m not sure why she would let Ben go back at all. Perhaps she just wanted him to turn on Locke, who knows what she knows about that situation. But I doubt she organized the whole Flight 316 thing as a favor to either the O6 or to Ben.
    Very good observation about the non-crazies. I never thought about it as a group but it’s true the less stable characters off the island are calm and sane when they’re on the island. Good stuff.
    I was just as surprised when Caesar got killed. They made it seem like he was a new cast member.
    BTW, I’m creating a Miles’ Power origin Theory page right now.
    – izi

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April 2009

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